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  - Firmware updates to existing routers allowed until March 2027
  - Article has statements by Netgear and TP-Link
Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47495344

This older model has a micro-USB port that can be used with wired ethernet.

Nuvia/Qualcomm lawsuit and Softbank.

Nvidia and SK Hynix are bringing HBF to market for $$.

> consumer-grade routers that are produced in the USA

Starlink?


I believe they make satellite components not consumer hardware in the US

The linked BBC article above says the Starlink terminals are made in Texas.

X-The Everything router, now with 'Mecha Hitler' built in!

> It has to be from Day 1.

There was a promising design from Azure Sphere for 10 years of IoT device Linux security updates from Microsoft, even if the IoT vendor went out of business. This required a hardware design to isolate vendor userspace code from device security code, so they could be updated independently. Could be resurrected as open standard with FRAND licensing.


The main thing you need is for the lowest-level code to be open and replaceable/patchable because it's the only part which is actually specific to the device. Windows running on Core Boot is a better place to be than custom Linux running on opaque blob, because in the first case you can pretty easily get to newer Windows, vanilla Linux or anything else you want running on Core Boot after the original version of Windows goes out of support, and you can update Core Boot, whereas the latter often can't even get you to a newer version of Linux.

Modern coreboot depends on opaque blobs on CPU (FSP/ACM on Intel) and auxiliary processors (ME/PSP), but AMD is moving in the right direction with OpenSIL host firmware. Arm devices have their own share of firmware blobs.

A decade of security updates for routers would require stable isolation between low-level device security and IoT vendor userspace. In Sphere, the business model for 10 years of paid updates was backed by hardware isolation. Anyone know why it didn't get market traction? There was a dev board, but no products shipped.


>Anyone know why it didn't get market traction?

Oh gee. Maybe because no one sane looks at an industrial product adversarially built to confine and prevent the end user from doing anything to it and wants anything to do with it? It isn't rocket science. If I can't buy it and get a damn manual and programming tools to twiddle all the bits, I'm not adopting. Not even at gunpoint, or if you're the last supplier on Earth. I won't be held voluntarily hostage because a bunch of corporate types, and bureaucrats decided to work together to normalize adversarial silicon. Multiply by everyone I know, and anyone with enough braincells to rub together to pattern match "regulatory capture" and "capitalist rent seeking". You can call me a bore if you want. The incentives are completely unaligned, as this place is so fond of saying. End user adoption is built on faith in product. End user capacity to have faith in the product is based on the capability of the technically savvy purchaser to keep the thing running, repair, understand, and explain it to the non-technically savvy. I look at adversarial silicon isolating me from the hardware; I have to sound off-my-rocker to my non tech-savvy friends family to actually explain that yes, there are industrial cabals out to keep you from doing things with the thing you bought.

It doesn't make any business sense, or practical sense whatsoever. Don't bother quoting regulations that demand the isolation (baseband processors and radio emission regulations) at me. Yeah. I know. I've read those too.

Get over business models that require normalized game theory, and we can talk. Until then, enjoy never having nice things catch on. Hint: your definition of "nice" (where I can't control how it works after purchase) is mutually exclusive with things I'm willing to syndicate as "nice". Nice people don't manipulate others.


> If I can't buy it and get a damn manual and programming tools to twiddle all the bits, I'm not adopting.

Hence the isolated device security hardware should be an open standard with FRAND licensing. If devices ship with a prepaid commercial license for 10 years of device security updates from BIG_CO, the default commercial baseline would be raised independent of IoT vendors. Tech-savvy users could then have the option to replace the device security layer with the OSS _or_ competing commercial stack of their choice.


Good question for devices that ship with multiple network interfaces, multiple video outputs, no RAM and no software.

If multiple network interfaces defines a router, then every cell phone is one, because every cell phone has a cellular and Wifi interface, and is a router in hotspot mode. Three interfaces if you count USB which can also be a network interface (hotspot works over USB in both Windows and Linux) and four if Bluetooth PAN is still a thing.

Speaking of phone companies, Apple will be manufacturing Mac Mini in USA.

If Apple can make a Neo laptop out of phone parts, they could make a US Airport router out of US mini PC parts.


All routers ship with software.

(edit: and RAM!)

(edit: and NOT multiple video outputs!!)


x86 multi NIC barebone fanless PC is not for routing, nope.

It definitely could be! And some people do use it for that!

(edit: but it's not considered a consumer grade router, that's for sure!)


Who said anything about multiple NICs? Ethernet port and Wifi modem in AP mode are more than enough

Probably made in Vietnam, like Amazon Eero.

Where it's manufactured has nothing to do with security.

  FCC maintains a list of equipment and services (Covered List) that have been determined to “pose an unacceptable risk to the national security.." FCC Updates Covered List to Include Foreign-Made Consumer Routers..

"national security" and "security" mean very, very different things in this context though.

I disagree with the FCC. Banning "China routers" will not meaningfully increase security. Actual security has no correlation with country of manufacture.

> Lockdown Mode breaks call recording

Do you mean screen recording? What are the symptoms of the bug?


Nope, call recording. Not sure how universal this is, but phone call recording immediately stops with the "This call is no longer being recorded" effect afterwards.

> At any point your iphone sends an http request to a compromised site, by add, link, embedded, etc. your device will be exploited.

Would it help to disable Javascript on untrusted sites via Brave?


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