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Window Maker 0.95.8 released (windowmaker.org)
180 points by shimabukuro on March 11, 2017 | hide | past | favorite | 90 comments


The "half-maximized" feature sounds great, and one of the things that I feel like no one has right, still. Windows has actually gotten pretty good, surprisingly (drag to corners to get a quarter screen window, drag to sides to get half screen). Gnome is clumsier than I'd like. I really would love a window manager that handles tiling well, but doesn't require complete buy-in to a fully tiled concept. I doubt I'll be going back to Window Maker for this (I used it up until switching briefly to Enlightenment and then on to various Gnome standard window managers....Sawfish, and some others), but it seems like it's reasonably well thought out implementation.

Also, I find it really funny when a project has been around for decades, and has been regarded as stable for nearly as long, and still hasn't done a 1.0 release.


KDE has drag to corner to get quarter screen window for a long time.


I've been a kde user for a couple of years now and I had no idea this existed...


Unfortunately in Window Maker the left/right edges of the screen move a window to another virtual desktop (by default), so this would have to be limited to the top or bottom edges which do not seem to have an action tied to them so far.


There is also drag to edge to get half of the screen. (only for left/right edges)


And you can left click and middle click the maximize button on a window title bar to maximize it on the vertical and horizontal axises only. Combined with edge snapping making it easy to move a window on only one axis at that point, you can set up a few column tiles that way very easily.

Funny memory: I've been a KDE developer for 12 or 13 years. I think one of my first patches ever was a fix for the window manager to restore to correct window geometry when cancelling a partially maximized state using the restore action. A friend of mine was using the above feature to set up tiled text editors and I wanted to fix it for him.


> Windows has actually gotten pretty good, surprisingly (drag to corners to get a quarter screen window, drag to sides to get half screen)

Holy shit on a shingle... how did I not know about this magic incantation!


Even better then: try the Win key + arrow keys.


And shift+win+arrows to kick it over your multiple monitors.

With those two features now in Windows (for a while) I could finally drop my autohotkey windowing script.


I knew about and use the hell out of the Win+Arrow combo... but I didn't know you could drag to corners/sides to get the same effect.

Always nice to have alternatives - and I'm always dragging stuff around to different windows so it'll be nice to not have to drag, drop and then window key stuff.


I'm going to plug my dispswitch program (https://github.com/tom-seddon/dispswitch - Windows only. You run it from a hotkey manager such as AutoHotKey). It does a better job of preserving monitor-relative size and position when you've got monitors with work rects of different sizes.

For tiling windows, try align_window3 (https://github.com/tom-seddon/align_window3 - again, it's for Windows, and use AutoHotKey). It gives you more portrait-friendly options than the Windows default stuff.


> I really would love a window manager that handles tiling well, but doesn't require complete buy-in to a fully tiled concept.

I use OpenBox and awesomewm together. I can tile if I want, but I also have access to a more traditional approach.

Because of OpenBox's configuration of everything, I can often link the two together to do fun things like, tile all windows equally around my active window, that I can drag and resize as I like.


> Windows has actually gotten pretty good, surprisingly (drag to corners to get a quarter screen window, drag to sides to get half screen).

Add a dash of Taekwindow to the mix, and you'll have everything you need:

http://taekwindow.net/


I use a similar application AltDrag. I can't live without it. I of course set it to the Win Key instead of Alt, as Alt key is used heavily in Blender and some other of the software that I use.

https://stefansundin.github.io/altdrag/


You can use window button + arrows to attach windows to corners.


Yes, I know :). Taekwindow adds X11-like behaviour with ALT+left/right click drag to move/resize. Also let's you have scroll-under-cursor instead of scroll-focused-window behaviour.

So it's entirely complementary, and you can customise to your liking.


use Divvy ( Mac, Windows )

You get granular ad-hoc tiling that fits the need you have when you have it.

http://mizage.com/divvy/


If this let you specify the grid settings using the keyboard instead of requiring me to use the mouse, I'd love it. Oh, and I'm on Linux, as well...


The video looks pretty sweet. Expensive though.


Personally I find Magnet[1] (for Mac) to be wonderful, it moves your windows around to halves, thirds, and two-thirds presets with either dragging or keyboard shortcuts.

[1]: http://magnet.crowdcafe.com


That looks great. I love that it supports thirds.


AwesomeWM is both a tiling and floating WM. It has this feature (including snap to corner for 1/4). Awesome is a window manager framework allowing its users to be pretty much anything they want.

(disclaimer, I am a contributor)


And it is default WM on Gobolinux 016 (016.1 being in the works right now).


Moom for Mac is great with near perfect functionality. Hover over the "Fullscreen" button and you can select by a customizable grid for size and placement. Also quick half sized options.


I deeply love Moom because you can set it up to be tiled-with-gaps, which is ideal if you're still occasionally using your mouse to move stuff around.


Argh! Yet another incredible piece of software I never heard of until stumbling across the posts here in a HN thread. Why is finding these great pieces of software so hard!

Thanks for the tip on it!


Another fan here. There are other small utilities that provide the same functionality, but Moom is best to me because it doesn't hijack screen edges/corners, preventing accidental maximizing and playing more nicely with a workflow with an even mix of maximized and odd-sized windows.


KDE had it many years ago.


drag to corners to get a quarter screen window, drag to sides to get half screen

Incidentally, that behaviour was one of the first things I had to figure out how to turn off in Windows, because I just wanted to move the window there; I did NOT want to resize it. I found it quite annoying.


Cinnamon has similar "drag to edge" tiling as Windows, and you can also configure keyboard shortcuts for it - I have win+arrow keys configured to move windows to the edges/corners.


On that last statement of yours, keep this as a rule of thumb:

If an API, 1.0 means stable. If an application, 1.0 means fully featured (as dictated by the author or community).


Why the downvote?


No idea, but in general, there are no general rules for version numbers.


Well, of course. It's just a common pattern that I've observed (mostly in the npm packages and linux cli tools).


Spectacle for Mac has this feature, too.


Feeling nostalgic ... Window Maker was my window manager of choice per year (up to the GNOME 1 days when it was still easy to run gnome-panel on top of WM).

The NeXTSTEP way in which menus can be triggered by right-clicking is really usable - I only wish it's possible to attach the app menu bar as well. The global menu bar approach of macOS and GNOME can feel a bit ridiculous on large displays.


> (up to the GNOME 1 days when it was still easy to run gnome-panel on top of WM)

One more thing to mourn the loss of with Wayland i guess...


Why was this downvoted? Breaking backwards compatibility with every existing WM is legitimately a downside to Wayland.


What would it take to port to wayland?


Pretty much a complete rewrite. Wayland is nothing like X11.


I have taken to likening Wayland to svgalib.

The basic task of Wayland is to facilitate that a program (most commonly a DE compositor/WM) can draw on the screen using the GPU without the programmer having to write OpenGL code.


Naysay the "future", get the downvote stick...


> I only wish it's possible to attach the app menu bar as well. The global menu bar approach of macOS and GNOME can feel a bit ridiculous on large displays.

I personally disagree. It's still highly relevant to be able to "slam" the pointer upward to always land on the menu bar.


Problem is returning to where you came from again.

RISC OS has the best menus, just click the mouse button anywhere in the window, maximum Fitts score, and you can select menu items and keep the menu open to select more, also select a menu item that has a submenu, and have windows as submenus, for palette selection etc


That's also what GIMP has right :) They added the (IMO perfectly useless) standard menu for the unacquainted...


>Problem is returning to where you came from again.

I have cursor speed set high on all of my machines for this very reason. Easy to slam edges, minimal movement to get back to where you started. It takes a day or so to adjust to being precise with small hand movements, but it was totally worth it, at least for me.


I'm curious what kind of mouse you have, and how you have it set up. I'm guessing you're not using a trackpad or TrackPoint?


My day to day pointing device is a trackball (CST L-Trac) but I occasionally use a mouse and the trackpad on my MBP. At one point I used a dell precision laptop with a trackpoint. Pointer speed is high on all of them, and I used to use hot corners but now the only corner I use is bottom left for screen lock.


Ah, a trackball; that makes perfect sense. I really need to get myself one of those things :)

Interesting, screen lock at bottom left. I'm guessing you're not using Windows, or that you open the menu with the Windows key if you do.


Screws with FFM.


Nice to know they still keep developing it.

Window Maker became my favourite window manager around 1997, after trying out the majority of them since I installed Slackware 2.0 for the first time.

I kept on using it until around 2006, when I switched back to Windows as my main desktop.

Back the in day I had a nice collection of mini apples, pity that GNUStep never came to be fully integrated with it.

Nowadays my GNU/Linux VMs run Ubuntu/Unity, I guess I will have to try WM again. :)


As someone still using Window Maker, these mini-DockApps are a a reason why I keep using it. The dock is on the left or right, so it does not take the more precious vertical screenspace. And dockapps are reasonably sized (64x64 pixels by default) and thus can show useful information. I am especially fond of one showing CPU activity like blobs in a lava lamp (wmforkplop).

I also got very used to the way WM does virtual desktops, though KDE can be configured to behave nearly identical by now.


A unique feature to Window Maker's virtual desktops is the clip. The clip basically allows you to create a kind of separate dock per virtual desktop so if you have a separate VD per type of task (e.g. web, chat, code, art, media, games, etc) you can put the relevant launchers on the clip instead of the dock and leave only the global stuff (like docklets and utilities like a terminal, notepad, file browser, etc) in the dock.

I actually ignored that for years, until i decided to try it out and found it much easier to work with since i could create many more launchers than if i had to fit everything in the regular dock (of course i could also use drawers - which sadly are not yet supported by the clip - but i think having the launchers per virtual desktop is better).


what does WM that is special with virtual desktops?


Typically thy're arranged in a flat space, think of them extending left and right, logically, of your monitor(s).

The Windowlist shows all open windows. You can pin it, then walk through the list if you've lost track of something.

Windows can be pinned to all desktops.

Nothing I've seen in 30 years comes close.


I must be misunderstanding something because from what you describe it sounds like how Gnome, i3 and EvilWM and many others handle virtual desktops.


Sounds to me exactly like functionality IceWM offers.


A number of the older WMs are not entirely dissimilar. Some aren't, though. FVWM for example has a grid rather than flat layout, which I find confusing (you might go left/right, you might go up/down). The boxes generally struck me as pretty good -- Blackbox I think most especially.

KDE comes close to WindowMaker in functionality (I've been watching/using that occasionally since ~1999), but never quite seems to get it right. KDE's windowlist, for example, isn't pinnable, and if you're walking that, you have to re-open, and re-acquire your current working spot, for each window you're traversing. That extra bit of friction rubs me raw every damned time.

The crazy thing about WindowMaker, for me, is how for such a ... not particulalry beautiful* desktop (though I find its asthetics completely acceptable), it's so damned useful. It's either exceptionally well designed ... or I've just got it cold-welded to my muscle memory. I couldn't honestly tell you which.

(Though I think its design is particularly good, with its design stability a major part of that.)


Window Maker was my first encounter with virtual desktops and since I started using it I can no longer imagine working efficiently without virtual desktops. Was Window Maker the first manager that had virtual desktops?


The first time I have seen virtual desktops was on a UNIX workstation running the FVWM window manager in 1995, a couple of years before Window Maker's inital release.



That illustration image. In hindsight i can't help think that the release of Compiz was what made the DEs jump the shark.


That was my first use of them as well.


My first encounter with virtual desktops was on AfterStep, and later on I migrated to Window Maker as it was becoming more popular in Brazil. But I think CDE had virtual desktops long before. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Desktop_Environment


Window Maker was one of the reason why I decided to start using Linux back in 1999. I was running Windows 98 back then, and I was so taken by the style of the different window managers available for Linux. I marveled at how flexible Enlightenment looked and fvwm either looked like crap or like a work of art depending on the time the user spent in his configuration file.

But by far, my favorite look was Window Maker. I liked the large icons, the blocky menu, and the intriguing dockapps. After I managed to install Linux (that was a hard task for a 16 year-old who couldn't read English), I used Window Maker for a number of years. It was fast, it was functional, and it was really cool! These days I use LXDE with Openbox, but I'm always thrilled to hear about new developments in Window Maker.


Thanks to the team. My daily driver for two decades.


I used it for 10 years till 6 years ago. kudos for it!!


This brings back memories. I have screenshots of my desktop running Window Maker from 1997 (on a SparcStation). Guess I could start using it again, after 20 years :-)


Wow. This brings back memories. I think I used this after I used fvwm2. Sigh.


I love WM. I hope they stay off the radar though. If it ever picks up any momentum, RedHat or the Gnome team are going to move in and start "improving" it.


whoo, I just started using WMaker again a couple of days ago and this is one of the features I missed the most from other envs.


Window Maker is great, inspired on NeXTSTEP.

On Windows there is LiteStep which is free and fully customizable. Makes Windows more palatable.


But then Windows was never really designed to handle anything but explorer.exe as its "WM".


Windows 95 and 98 worked pretty well with alternative shells. I think originally the option was there just so users could run the classic 3.x shell (progman.exe I think it was called) but it was pretty trivial to write you own ones; as I often did when I was bored.

You couldn't do much to change the title bars et al though.


Yeah. I remember using an alternative shell for Windows that improve it a lot. Evince or Evance I think that was called.


That's my worry with Wayland. Everything will be designed around GNOME and KDE and it will be difficult to run "alternative" WMs.


I don't think this is anymore a valid concern. From the Wayland FAQ:

"How can I replace Wayland's Window Manager?

The Wayland architecture integrates the display server, window manager and compositor into one process. You can think of Wayland as a toolkit for creating clients and compositors. It is not a specific single compositor or window manager. If you want a different window manager, you can write a new one. A 'libweston' effort is underway in order to allow new environments to reuse Weston's codebase and mechanics, whilst providing their own look and feel."

And here's a list of "alternative" WMs already in progress for Wayland/Weston: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Wayland#Window_managers...


That leaves it up to the WM to allow or deny "accessories"...


There's a handful of Wayland compositor frameworks - including one built by the KDE project - and Weston provides an interface by which custom UIs can be created. I don't think there's going to be much of an issue, aside from potential problems with the spec itself.


But you can easily replace your default "shell" from the registry, e.g. by KDE for Windows.


Wow! I've been looking for a Windows 10 explorer replacement for some time. Thanks! Wishes for a return to Windows 95/Windows 2000 server UI...


Amazing it's still under development. And that they're keeping the tradition of forever approaching 1.0.0


There used to be a ton of amazing WindowMaker themes. They seem to have disappeared with freshmeat.org


Some of them can still be found if you look around on Google. Unfortunately, they haven't aged well -- their wallpapers are mostly for 4:3 monitors and low resolutions, the textures are for low-res screens etc..

box-look.org has a few more recent ones.


Yeah, you're right. Back in 2001-2002 people would walk by my computer screen and be impressed, ask, "What OS is that??" Now the other OSes have caught up in appearance.

Thanks.


Hmm, I remember using Window Maker on Sun Spark workstations back in 1998-1999 or so...


it seems that hell froze over.

So fvwm95 will also come with a release?


I have the impression it has been folded into FVWM proper, and the latter is still being maintained.


wow, there's a nice bit of nostalgia!


Next up: A new release of bowman.




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