Do they really expect people who go through the effort of installing a third party browser and setting it as default to switch back to Edge because of the grand experience they had with it when Windows opened some help article in it?
How much money do they make of the 0.000001% of users who do the above?
How much money do they lose because of the reputation damage and increased regulator attention because of it?
I cannot think of any scenario where, money wise, this is a net positive for MS.
Microsoft is very consistent in aggressively promoting their own stuff at every turn. Ever noticed how the "what application you wanna use for this file type?" dialog pop ups every time any application is installed that can handle that type? Ever noticed how this dialog always has Microsoft's option at the top of the list? Ever noticed this dialog pops up after some updates because the Microsoft option has been updated so it's a Totally New Experience that You Really Ought To Try Now? Ever noticed how every few months you'll get a giant screen filling modal pop-up on login telling you to create a Microsoft account Right Now or Else? Ever noticed how Windows 10 shows a full-screen "Leave everything to us" banner during installation? Ever noticed the FOMO ads on the lock screen ("Windows brings you closer to what you love in life", "Don't miss any European soccer!")? Ever noticed the cringy "Just one more thing" and "Let's get you set up" system modals? Ever noticed how you have to lie to the setup wizard in order to not have a Microsoft account ("I don't have internet")?
The entire messaging of this OS is dystopian corpo garbage and then people are shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, that it's a monopolistic shitpile kicking your civil rights in the nuts at every turn.
This is what drove me over the edge to another operating system, I gotta imagine others as well.
Having ads at the OS level is just mind boggling, I get people can get used to anything but I really hoped there'd be a line where people just left in swarms.
This goes for me. When I graduate, my next machine is definitely going to be a linux machine. I will keep an unlicensed windows version on the side just for gaming.
I'm sick of having my attention preyed upon everywhere I look in that OS. It makes me feel insulted.
You might not even need the Windows install at all for gaming. With all the work Valve has been putting into Proton, even games with funky anti-cheat should work on any Linux distro by the time the Steam Deck comes out.
I haven't kept a Windows machine for gaming since 2015. It was hard then, but now it's a breeze if the game is on Steam. If it's not, Lutris will probably handle it for you. Most single player and a lot of multiplayer games work without a hitch. I am, for instance, playing Tetris Effect connected and Dark Souls 3 online right now.
But but, "Microsoft isn't the same anymore!" VSCode is open! And good!
The narrative has really pulled in Microsoft's favor and I think that's not too our advantage. Every conversation I have with them is about how they "used to be bad but are great for open source now".
I opened a PDF yesterday and it showed me the prompt, even though my default had been set. In the prompt Edge was in its own special top element (below the current default but above the alternatives) with a name like "microsoft's recommendation".
This occured just after a system update. It might even have said that edge was new and improved, but I am not sure on that.
> The entire messaging of this OS is dystopian corpo garbage and then people are shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, that it's a monopolistic shitpile kicking your civil rights in the nuts at every turn.
The funny thing is, they're doing it for more than decade, and people believe that one day they won't do it. On the contrary, it'll get more and more aggressive.
I lied the wrong way. I gave them a totally bogus email address instead of saying that I don't have internet. Now they keep telling me that "there's a problem with your Microsoft account" that I need to fix...
Luckily with the advent of Proton and actual anti-cheats being supported by Linux, the last thing keeping me on this utterly disgusting platform will be gone.
I won't miss Windows one second. Now just to find the right distribution environment...
No. I must be doing something differently. To be fair, Edge is not forced upon me, as I am using Firefox, but the only thing I do not like is that Windows 10 is updating itself whenever it wants.
Ah, and I installed Windows 10, that does not use Microsoft account(you might had to disconnect internet cable for that), so it might be the main problem.
Some Windows 10 updates add Edge into the taskbar if you move it out of it. Hilariously, if you install multiple Windows updates in a batch, you might end up with multiple Edge launchers in the taskbar. I think at least once, it changed the default browser back to Edge, too
Windows 8 automatically installs Edge even if you have non-essential updates turned off. I'm pretty sure I noticed it because it appeared in the taskbar.
> How much money do they lose because of the reputation damage and increased regulator attention because of it?
Unfortunately I doubt they lose very much at all based on a move like this. To sophisticated users this is a huge red-flag, but I would imagine a vast majority of computer users barely know what browser they use.
Probably they use edge by default until they're cajoled into installing Chrome as their default browser by their google services, and then they're confused why certain things from chrome don't work when they've been led to a website from the search bar.
That's an absolutely atrocious result from a UX point of view. And it really makes you wonder about the incentive structures in the industry to contemplate the collective frustration suffered by hundreds of millions or billions of users just so some PO's can get a raise for hitting their KPI targets this or that quarter.
This is clearly not true. Firefox has higher desktop browser usage than edge[1].
> they're cajoled into installing Chrome as their default browser by their google services. And do you really think 80% of the destop users clicked to install chrome because they click anything on the net?
I thought they removed the ad for chrome in google services.
> Firefox has higher desktop browser usage than edge
I don't think the Wikipedia page supports this definitively.
Under summary tables [1], for October 2021, 2 out of 4 sources put Edge ahead of Firefox for desktop browsers (by more than the ones that put Firefox ahead of Edge). In older data, Edge+IE seems to beat Firefox.
Separately, Firefox being more used than Edge would not contradict most people using Edge briefly until they install Chrome.
How does that graph disprove my supposition? I would assume Firefox's share is almost completely Linux users and people on the more sophisticated end who choose Firefox explicitly.
The pattern you see there would still hold in the scenario I describe so long as Chrome is quite effective at getting people to install chrome through things like banners and email CTA's.
So what that they are linux users? I am sure you would consider Linux users as at least partially caring about the browser they use. I can't imagine any linux user to use Edge even if it was available on Linux. The point is more user care about the browser they user than you think.
Well Firefox is largely the default on Linux, so it wouldn't represent a proactive choice.
And linux users are probably more likely to fall into the category of sophisticated user than the general population.
I don't see any evidence in what you've presented that the average computer user cares at all about what browser they're using beyond "I will click until the annoying notifications go away".
It’s peanuts enough to not affect that many users, but loud and clear to send the message that Windows is no longer users’. It’s Microsoft’s.
If you step back a little, there is a clear pattern. Starting with the mandatory telemetry and forced updates in W10, cross-signing requirements for any kernel code, unyielding push for using web accounts for local logins and all the way up to the mandatory hardware TPM in W11 (which literally has no other major differences from W10) - the proverbial garden is getting all walled up whether anyone likes it or not.
An iteration or two more and the OS will be locked completely, with the only way in through the AppStore.
> Do they really expect people who go through the effort of installing a third party browser and setting it as default to switch back to Edge because of the grand experience they had with it when Windows opened some help article in it?
No they don't, otherwise they wouldn't be trying to undermine the whole concept of "default browser" like this.
I think what they expect is that those people will keep using Edge "on accident" - because various bits of essential OS chrome will just keep opening it, no matter what.
After some time, those users will grow tired of manually copy-pasting the link into Firefox or whatever and just keep using Edge for those tasks.
They may just like the telemetry benefit of users accidentally opening Edge occasionally, versus any uptick in people actually choosing Edge. The "Edge Only" links tend to be to Microsoft properties. Like the weather widget opens an msn.com link.
I think search will open Bing. Unless you go to the trouble of manually copying and pasting the link, you'll open all sites you access through the search results in the same edge instance as well.
This happens to me periodically, because I rarely use bookmarks or persistent tabs. Edge will open because Microsoft, I'll start browsing, and it'll be a few minutes before I notice that I've been scammed again.
God, that's such a typical new-Microsoft dark pattern; hiding the toggle for an annoyance in some weird location, hoping the user doesn't find it. It's everywhere in Windows 10.
Probably to increase the friction of using other browsers. It will be simpler for many users to keep all their bookmarks, history, and saved passwords in one browser. If Microsoft's products require Edge, it's going to channel more users to Edge due to reduced friction.
It is very much worth it or they won't make it so hard.
https://backlinko.com/bing-users
>Microsoft generated $8.53 billion in search advertising revenue in the 2021 fiscal year.
I don't think they're doing this for money. I think they're doing it ostensibly for security reasons, with the idea being:
If the unsophisticated user performs a search with the OS, and the links get clickjacked by a cracked browser and the user ends up installing malware as a result, they're not going to blame Firefox, or the malware-writer. They're going to blame Microsoft, because they were just using the OS. What's more the vulnerability won't be something MS can fix because it will be the fault of 3rd party software. So to prevent that possibility MS want end-to-end control over the search results.
Having said that I think a lot of the recent bad will toward MS is self-inflicted. One easy thing they could do is allow the paid versions (Pro and up) of Windows to have an "expert" mode that lets the user configure their OS the way they want, including removing all the telemetry and making all unessential apps/tools entirely optional, including Edge of course.
I forget the name of it, but there's a fork one of the open source browsers that's distributed by neo nazi types. I stumbled onto it trying to find a copy of XP I could use in a VM to run some ancient software. I wouldn't at all be surprised if it had a backdoor.
This was more along the lines of my thinking too. A more reasonable explanation here is that they this gives them control over UI and security which from MS's perspective may make sense if people are likely to attribute any UI / security issues to MS. It could also be something to do with the analytics they're able to collect.
Also when you have a company the size of MS talking about a small decision like this as if the whole company is onboard and actively engaged in the decision making process is naive. It was most likely a decision made by a few people at MS. Not saying that excuses it, but often individuals in companies have their own misaligned incentives and make certain decisions for their own benefits.
Are they still a dominant OS though? I'm sure they are if you're only talking about desktop operating systems, but I think we'd want to include mobile operating systems now that many people solely use phones and tablets for their personal computing.
> Do they really expect people who go through the effort of installing a third party browser and setting it as default to switch back to Edge because of the grand experience they had with it when Windows opened some help article in it?
A lot of people don't understand what different browsers are, for them there is just "the Internet". I can tell my parents to just install and use Firefox. But they will then happily use a random Edge screen that was last visible to do their next search and be none the wiser. Meanwhile Microsoft will be raking in all their user data and advertisement space.
I can imagine that there's some contorted logic that goes like this:
* MS (used to) allow the user to choose default programs in the spirit of "openness" (because they were legally told to).
* The default settings in programs have never been legislated...
* ...therefore do dark patterns in programs and set the default search in Edge to be Bing...
* ... and make it even harder (impossible? dunno, not using Windows) to change Bing to Google in Edge and drive all Windows users to Bing, and drive ad revenue.
"There's nothing that can't be solved with an extra layer of indirection".
No, this way they can build the search experiance (and others) without cross browser testing. I'm not defending it though, it's an abandonment of the open web. Rather than work to right the ship, they choose to force everyone on a tiny lifeboat and pray they make it ashore. Nevermind that they left half the crew behind.
I don't think it's too difficult to understand.. they want a supported method to open their own apps using their own browser, guaranteeing any QA done on those apps will cover any potential onslaught of bug/support workload due to third party browsers.
I'd prefer it if these things opened in Firefox, but I can just as easily see how from an engineering perspective they want this mechanism and are willing to defend it. From that perspective, Firefox is intentionally fucking around with OS internals in a way that could create costs for their support org.
(edit: please don't shoot the messenger. I'm an affected user too)
Do they really expect people who go through the effort of installing a third party browser and setting it as default to switch back to Edge because of the grand experience they had with it when Windows opened some help article in it?
How much money do they make of the 0.000001% of users who do the above?
How much money do they lose because of the reputation damage and increased regulator attention because of it?
I cannot think of any scenario where, money wise, this is a net positive for MS.