Because it's interesting as hell. I'm Catholic, and clicking around in here there's practically nothing religious in it to me at all. No part of my own faith engages with Celsus Description of the Ophite Diagrams. But it sounds like something out of a Clive Barker book --- and, behold, it is like something out of a Clive Barker book:
He is the Demiurge of this world, the God of Moses described in his creation
narrative. Of the Seven archontic demons, the first is lion-shaped; the second
is a bull; the third is amphibious and hisses horribly; the fourth is in the
form of an eagle ; the fifth has the appearance of a bear, the sixth, that of
a dog ; and the seventh, that of an ass named Thaphabaoth or Onoel.
This is like a weird parallel of Greek mythology. But it's got a little extra charge because it ostensibly plugs into a modern religion. Super fascinating.
Can I ask why do you identify as "Catholic" and not as "Christian"? I have seen that a few times and it does seem like attempt from you to essentially state that you are making your own religion. How much splintering off can you do and still call yourself Christian?
Can't speak for anyone else, but it is not unusual (nor new) for someone to describe themselves as "Catholic." Briefly, they usually mean that they are a member of the Roman Catholic Church. Wikipedia will provide a great deal of reading about it.
Neither is it unusual for someone to describe themselves as a particular Protestant denomination: Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Episcopalian, et al. Again, Wikipedia is a good starting place.
People who simply describe themselves as "Christian" are what, in my experience at least, is relatively new. Going back, say, fifty years, it was somewhat unusual in many parts of the US to find people who described themselves that way.
In my experience, most of these people belong to one or another of what might be called non-denominational Christian churches. My preferred term for many of them is "contemporary American fundamentalist Christian," but that is not a widely used term, at least not that I know of.
Your question is strange enough that I'm honestly not sure whether or not you're trolling. If you are, as it seems you might be, a member of a contemporary American non-denominational Christian church, it is very weird, whether you know it or not, to suggest that a church that has existed for roughly two thousand years and has many more than a billion members wordwide is "splintering off" and "making [its] own religion."
That's weird to me because most Catholic people I know (Chicago is a very Catholic city) would identify themselves as "Catholic", not as "Christian". If you ask us "are you Christian", we'll say "yes", but it's not the word we use.
Maybe that's totally different for evangelicals or some other mainline denomination. I wouldn't know.
"Catholic" is just a Greek word that means "general, universal", derived from "kata holou" ("in accordance with the whole"). It's the opposite of a splintering off, though there is a viable argument that they splintered off of Orthodox Christianity (due originally to the filioque controversy, and arguably with broader differences relating e.g. to the worship of graven images, and the like).
I will actually argue that it is very useful and wish that more people started to be more specific about their faith. Firstly, stating that one is Catholic/Lutheran/... demonstrates that one understand that one is not representing the entire Christianity. Secondly, it is useful for discussion as it makes one's dogmas/axioms more explicit. And thirdly, it allows better granularity as some general teachings are really Christian (like the resurrection and most of the Credo) while other are specific to the tradition one follows (like the sacraments).
For example, a Catholic would hesitate to receive a "Christian eucharist" as the Catholic and protestant understanding of the Eucharist is so profoundly different
A final point, given the subject of the thread, is that since the Catholic Church regards itself as founded by Christ, it is older than the Bible, and that the Bible was primarily written by the Church, for the Church, to complement Tradition. They would consider splintering off Tradition and leaving Catholicism as moving away from Christ (as Christ is head of the Catholic Church)
I often experience this. I saw that a co worker had written something about God in their Twitter bio. "Are you a Christian?" "I'm a Catholic" they replied. Any other denomination would say "yes I'm a Christian" (there are no denominations in heaven, nor was there in the early church).
To understand this behaviour, it should be known that Catholics have introduced man made rules that they have additionally decided are not up for discussion (infallible) even if the Bible appears to say otherwise. Catholics teach that there is no salvation outside the church. By definition, this makes sense - the church is by definition a body of people who belong to Christ.
However what the catholics actually mean is "the Roman Catholic church". Whether your average Catholic realises this or not it's debatable, but the common clarification "I'm a Catholic" is because they have absorbed a corrupt teaching that only catholics can be saved.
Read this and the linked article at the bottom https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/is-there-re...
"I often experience this. I saw that a co worker had written something about God in their Twitter bio. 'Are you a Christian?' 'I'm a Catholic' they replied. Any other denomination would say 'yes I'm a Christian'"
I'm going to suggest that if you would find it surprising to have your question answered with "Yes, Greek Orthodox," or "Yes, Southern Baptist," or "Yes, United Methodist," or some similar variation, your personal experience may not be as broad or definitive as you seem to think it is.
Well it's a common question I've asked of people during my life, and only catholics ever make that distinction, almost a correction. And there's a reason why - because they think it's the one true church.
I'm not in the USA btw.
OK. I'm curious, roughly where are you? And if non-denominational, sort of generic "Christians" are common there now, what was the situation historically?
I'm in the UK.
Normal conversation: what did you do on Sunday? I was in church. "Oh are you a Christian" "yes".
Now, if the first person is not a Christian , that's often the end of the conversation.
If first person is also a Christian they would say "oh me too! What sort of church do you go to".
They might then answer, oh I got to st Luke's, have you heard of it. Or I go to so and so in the town. The baptist church? Yeah that one"
It's very unusual for a non Catholic to go straight to denominations in answer to the "are you a Christian", because that's not the question, and due to the appeal to unity, because of the belief that we're all part of god's family, rather than go straight for dividing lines. And never would anyone identify as "I'm a protestant", that would be odd.
OK thanks. By the UK, do you mean Great Britain? England? Something else?
As far as I know (admittedly not far), Christians in the UK are about one-third Church of England, one-third non-denominational, one-fifth Catholic, and the rest other. I think most of the growth in non-denominational Christian churches in the UK has taken place in my lifetime.
There is a particular part of the UK where, in fairly recent decades, I think self-identifying as "Protestant," as quite specifically opposed to "Catholic," was not at all odd, to use your word. Not sure of the extent to which that's still the case.
Here in (South-adjacent) Texas, if someone asks if I'm Christian, I'm likely to respond, "Well, I'm Episcopalian, if that counts" — because to some folks in this neck of the woods, Episcopalians aren't really Christians.
A lot of people assume "Christian" implies American evangelical values and beliefs (especially online), and many people want to make it clear they do not share those - e.g. biblical literalism.
Its common for people of many denominations to specify their denomination. People often say they are Anglican or Orthodox or whatever.
Edit: Nevermind apparently this is incorrect. This is just my take from trying to understand why we were Catholic and not Christian, and then avoiding being mistaken for 'Christian' later in life and not clarifying and staying in my lane. But I guess there is something else I don't understand going on.
'Christians' in the US don't consider Catholics 'Christians' (using quotes to show it's a group identifier based not solely on following Christs teachings). They (Christians) are also the newer splinter group. So Catholics have taken to identifying themselves as Catholics to 'stay in their lane' or to self identify to the 'Christians' that they aren't part of the accepted/in group. Catholics were lower status historically, look at the talk around Kennedy. Also Christians might not want to be friendly with Catholics but they would with Christians, so you out yourself as Catholic from the start to avoid that bullshit (so back to 'stay in your lane').
The two have very different approaches to religion, with Catholics following the 'love they neighbor' 'care for the poor' live Jesus' teachings and Christians building mega churches and following prosperity gospel. Or most upsetting to my grandma, the Christian holy roller stuff. Or more upsetting to the Christians Mother Mary in the Catholic church.
When I was a kid there was also a huge racial element. WASPs versus Catholic congregations made up of Italians, Irish, Filipinos, Latin Americans, Middle Easterners and Germans.
But from my experience it's largely the 'stay in your lane' thing. I've had people be friendly with me because since I was christian they assumed I was Christian christian, and when they found out I was Catholic they stopped talking to me (past tense as I'm not really religious).
I don't think any of this is really true? If I was Lutheran, I assume I'd just describe myself as "Lutheran".
This whole subthread is pretty weird. There's no deeper meaning to my describing myself as "Catholic". It's how any Catholic would describe themselves.
I encountered such discussions living overseas. For people who come from traditions from outside the Christian world, few know the differences between the various branches or the complex history or rites or terminology, and tend to lump them all in together regardless of the identity or faith of the person they’re speaking with. This is also true of outsiders regarding Islam, Buddhism, or other religions with long and splintered histories.
TBH it’s hard for many people who were raised in a specific Christian faith to concisely explain many of the differences themselves … I would struggle when asked “what’s the difference between Catholicism and Christianity“ or “Catholics and Baptists” back then.
