I certainly don’t agree with the things the administration is doing, but this seems like just hysteria. You are putting off your family growth plans because they might deport a theoretical future undocumented nanny? It is strange to me how generalized partisan fear has become.
I guess you don't live in Minneapolis, or another targeted metro area. It is hard to imagine what it is like to live in a city where 3000 masked and poorly trained people cos-playing special forces are specifically tasked with arresting as many people as they can and told that they have full immunity.
you haven't seen the effect on schools when federal agents enter school grounds and take kids away.
you haven't seen my parent's nursing home sending the senior leadership outside the building to look for patrols before they let the staff leave (the staff is all legal/greencard holders, but see note above -- ICE doesn't care).
It's not hysteria when it is your every day lived experience.
For me, it's not just that -- I don't live in Minneapolis -- but it's the sinking realization that half the country literally voted for this and is either ok or indifferent, so long as we are maintaining our "true (WASP) American culture". Call me naive, but it has come as a pretty big shock to me that Trump has exposed just how rotten a good fraction of Americans are -- and that's before even getting into the removal of climate change action (something I care very deeply about because it concerns my children's future), cuts to science, healthcare and higher education, foreign policy (admittedly, the US has always been a bully, but it's even worse now), clear attempts to rig the upcoming elections, etc. etc.
Don't be ridiculous, talking about "partisan fear". They have taken away documented, American citizens without due process.
When armed men can take you out of your home or your car and whisk you away without a judicial warrant and without due process, it is very reasonable to be afraid.
It’s really not. Define taken away. They’ve absolutely detained some citizens, then let them go.
And again, not defending what they are doing, they are awful,but you are probably more likely to be hit by lightning than you are to have any of your family planning go wrong because of them if you are a full citizen. (If you are undocumented here right now, yeah, totally.)
Hysterical people think they are being rational and stuff like this is exactly what they say.
> They’ve absolutely detained some citizens, then let them go.
That is taken away.
Someone in my network - a US citizen - was detained, taken to a city 3 hours away, and held for 10 days before being released. Was quite a while before her family knew where she was.
If you're an American who is visibly Hispanic, it's not at all hysterical. If you're in one of those cities, you do have to worry whether you'll return home when you leave your house.
> you are probably more likely to be hit by lightning
I get that you're trying to rationalize this scenario, but this line is completely false. If there was a nation-wide wave of aviation terrorism, it would not be appropriate to say that you're "more likely to be hit by lightning" than risk your life in a plane. The situation has changed, and they're not being hysterical for observing the trends and adjusting accordingly.
Lightning has a relatively static chance of hitting you. The likelihood of feds accidentally executing you in your hometown is on the rise, and we don't know when it will stop climbing.
Do you really think you have a holographic sign floating above you that tells them you are a citizen? How are you sure you are above suspicion to be an undocumented immigrant? Could you prove you aren't if some goons decided to pick you off the street right now or next time you go for a walk?
All this is about expanding the reach and normalizing abuse of the power of law enforcement, just like back then after 9/11.
It's like Germany in the 1930s again when Jews were required to wear a yellow star on their clothes, but the other way round.
If one can't even aspire to use a small portion of their dual tech sector incomes to illegally underpay someone to ensure they must sacrifice neither sleep nor income in the raising of their own children, well, then, the American dream is well and truly dead for all.
These neighborhoods are high income, predominantly white, and filled with families.
My oldest has come home terrified because he turned a corner while playing outside and physically bumped in a guardsman carry a rifle.
I get it that some of you don't live in places that are immediately impacted by this administration, but some of us have to confront this on a daily basis.
I just read both articles and I think his summary is accurate enough to stand behind his claim that putting off having children (if you want them) because of a theoretical situation qualified as 'hysterical' (assuming everyone in your household is authorized). I don't think he was replying in bad faith, even if you two disagree.
People who are hysterical never think (and will not accept) that they are. They think their response is rational and everyone else it’s ignorant or stupid or evil. It’s the exact same as what goes on on the other side when people talk about how Dems want “trans for everyone”.
It’s an irrational, emotional response so it can’t be fought with logic. It seems 100% obvious to them since ICE is doing so much bad stuff (which I agree, they are) that anyone who doesn’t think it’s quite at Gestapo levels is crazy.
I don’t usually engage because what they need is deprogramming, and I don’t know how to do it, and even if I did I would assume you can’t bell a stranger in the HN comment section.
I was not replying in bad faith, I just find it interesting that the brains of so many people, even intelligent ones, have been turned this way in recent years. I see it in here often. I’m sure if I read /r/kidrock I’d see it there too.
I also have just read both articles and think the opposite: We've got accountability-free, armed, masked, criminal thugs acting with impunity:
- Taking face scans of peaceful protestors and retaliating against them later;
- Racially profiling citizens and harassing them if they have the "wrong" skin color -- including local cops!
- Visiting the homes of citizens who have civilly and legally criticized ICE behavior online, to intimidate them;
- Invading homes without warrants and destroying evidence of their crimes (jamming wifi, covering up cameras, arresting and deporting witnesses, etc).
- Arresting people who came here legally, are here legally, and have not committed a crime in their lives, then unilaterally revoking their prior legal authorization and rapidly deporting them and their whole family;
- Raiding schools: kidnapping children and sending them off to torture prisons, while traumatizing the rest of the children (and assaulting some of the children too -- grown-ass men beating up children smh);
- Assaulting innocent, peaceful people for protesting them, whether citizen or not, whether legally here or not, including deploying chemical agents against them;
- Performing summary executions in the streets of unarmed citizens who are helping their community but do not support said masked, armed thugs;
- Etc etc etc
You'd have to be hysterical (or some other form of mentally unwell) to not let that affect your judgement of the wisdom of bringing young children into that world to be victims of it. Unfortunately, such hysterical, mentally unwell deniers never think (and will not accept) that they are. It’s an irrational, emotional dismissal, so it can’t be fought with logic. What they need is deprogramming, and I don’t know how to do it.
I just find it interesting that the brains of so many people in the minority, even intelligent ones, have been turned this way in recent years. I see it here somewhat often (roughly in proportion to the minority they represent). They just cannot process, much less accept, that most people do not agree with them, and are not hysterical and mentally unwell like them.
op had kids before the Nazis started taking over, but police were still performing routine executions, America had invaded several countries to execute their leadership, we live in a capitalist society...
All people hold inconsistent views. We are squishy meatbags.
That said, is this an example of that? Instead of declaring it so, try posing a question like "what is different about this time?" to a member of the majority you believe are holding 'inconsistent views'. You might learn that your prior assumptions were reductive, for example.
Also beyond the hysteria, you can’t post two paywalled articles and then assume bad faith on the part of any reply. My summary is based on what little I can see, though I doubt a full examination would make any sane person rethink their fertility planning.
